Joining the Sugarcats.com crew

Hi Justin,

Michael and Karen gave great advice.

I've switched my three to mostly canned food and they no longer have problems with cystitis. All THREE (including 2 females) have had struvite crystals in their urine = $$$ vet bills! When Desmond (the male) could no longer digest the dry Rx Royal Canin S.O. I switched him to Rx wet venison + peas until I found the same formula in a local pet store.

If we had only known about feeding wet food to diabetic cats back in 1999 Oliver may have been with me longer. I now feed Natural Balanced (venison or ultra) plus a tablespoon of Fromm's kibbles twice/day to my (so far fingers x'ed) non-diabetic trio.

Judy

Hi Justin!

My name is Carl, and I joined this site in May when my sugarcat, Bob was dx'd. I will tell you absolutely that the wonderful people here helped to save Bob's life! The day I got here, I was totally overwhelmed, a couple days after I learned that FD even existed. They welcomed me in with open arms, gave me so much support, and great advice, and today, Bob is back to his old self (although a size or two smaller), and hasn't needed any insulin since July 19th. He just had a vet checkup, and passed with flying colors.

Another thing this wonderful group did was steer to FDMB. It is an incredible place too. I've been scarce around here lately, not because I don't love all these people, but because I've become a feline diabetes whirling dervish! Once I was too timid and intimidated to post on FDMB - the place is pretty overwhelming at first. Today, I'm one of the most frequent posters, and I've become the "meet and greet guy" over there, always trying to post to the "newbies" and provide them with some "calm", and to let them know that it isn't a death sentence, it's a manageable disease. I think I've gotten pretty good at it, and in large part it's because of this site. I'm trying to give back what these folks gave to me, by paying it forward. I've also become a "case manager" for DCIN (diabetic cats in need), which is another great organization. Again, the confidence I gained from sugarcats.com is a large part of why I've been able to do it.

Okay, 'nuff about me. All I wanted to add to was what a couple of people have already told you about food. Bob ate dry his whole life, along with a can of wet per day. He at one time weighed 22lbs (on a 14 pound frame). His diet and obesity were two leading contributors to his diabetes. I was also given the link to "janet and binky's" here, and I switched Bob the next day to all canned food. I had been given Hill's M/D, not w/d, by my vet. It's marginally better for diabetics (w/d is actually for weight management), but still way too high in carbs. Unfortunately, most "prescription" food for cats is really not good for them when you look at the numbers. It would be awesome if you could get your guy off that dry food. Not only would it help long term (If you've read Dr. Lisa's pages, you've seen how bad dry food is), but it would probably have an immediate effect on his BG numbers. Like a drop of 100 points, maybe. I've seen that happen with tons of sugarcats. Sometimes new people change the diet, and never even have to start with insulin.

Bob was also on PZI, so if you have any PZI specific questions, I might be able to help. Bob wasn't on a strict 12 hour schedule either. More like 11 to 13 hours, depending on what shift I was working (changes every week). 12 and 12 is "best", but we do what we can do. PZI is a bit more flexible than other insulin types, so you can work around "strict" protocols if life requires it.

So, basically just wanted to add my "welcome", and let everyone here know I'm still upright and breathing. Oh, I grew up close by, in Massachusetts, but I am now located at Hunting Island, SC.

Carl

Ok, so current update on Tip and perhaps a question or two along the way. I recently switched Tip Toes to Purina DM Diabetic Management in the dry to ease over his switch and because my family wants nothing to do with canned food as of yet. Just that switch alone seems to have dropped him from 2 units twice a day down to one unit twice a day.

That being said, hopefully the next switch will be to canned food itself.

Tip Toes has, for a while been doing something odd, and it has become more prominent recently and I dont know what to do about the situation. My little guy, (who has always been amazing with his litter training) is occasionally leaving me little presents of his fecal matter right in the middle of my bed. Having a foam mattress it makes the cleanup near impossible and very very frustrating. Im at a loss for huge medical bills right now, so taking him in again to get his feces checked is out of the question but he was checked when he did this a few months ago and everything came up normal. The vet figured it is likely behavioral and recommended placing multiple boxes along the house.

Now tip lives in a small room for the most part, but has plenty of social interaction. The people he lives with along with myself visit him all the time, play with him and let him out to roam. His litter box is always clean, and water up snuff also. No major changes correlate with the behavior and I even bought some of the Feliway stuff to try to help with any physiological fermone stuff. Its very apparent its for me to see, dead center of the bed each time, and will use his box when he wants.

Just wondering if anyone may have any advice or may know what to do in this situation.

Thanks a lot ~

Justin

This is proobably due to his changed diet.

If its not too runny or too dry, there wont be much wrong.

Can you keep him out of the bedroom?

Mary

I cant keep him out of the bedroom at all, and this has happened before a while ago. I believe it to be behavioral more then anything. His food is not the effect as it was done before the food change, just with varying frequency, and now becoming almost daily.

Im at a loss for how to stop it but it is something I cant tolerate anymore. I cant give him up because no one would take him im sure, and I dont want to but I cant have a cat that poops on the one place I sleep.

Anyone else go through this problem at any time and have any advice. I feel like it wants to tell me something but I cant figure out what he is telling me.

Thanks a lot~

Justin + Tip Toes

I've never had a cat who did that in an obvious place like Tip Toes is doing. But I agree that this is probably behavioral. Since he does it in the same place every time, you might try putting a litter box in the middle of the bed to see if that works. He's definitely trying to tell you something, maybe you need to tell him something back.

If that doesn't work, maybe get a large roll of aluminum foil and cover the bed. Most cats are either afraid of aluminum foil or just don't like the feel of it on their feet.

I know that what you are going through can be very frustrating. Somewhere, there is logic to Tip's actions. You just need to think like a cat and figure out what that logic is.

Michael

I think what bothers me is the increasing frequency of it (up to daily now), and wouldn't putting a litter box in the middle of my bed say "hey, I think its a good idea for you to go to the bathroom right here, on top of my bed". Beyond that I dont really like the idea of a litter box sitting on top of my bed, although I rarely consider it of less lately.

I hate to think that this may be the end of our relationship but I dont know what else to do, I think I am going to try to the foil idea, but I dont think that I should have to go through such great lengths to prevail against this lil 12 lb animal.

Im going to bring him to the vet for a full work up, just to make sure nothing else is going wrong, but if everything comes up clean, im a a loss for what else to do.

Thanks Michael for your quick response.

Sincerely ~

Justin

The litterbox is saying something like "if you are going to poop on my bed, at least have the decency to do it in the litterbox". If it works, then, you slowly move the litterbox toward the edge of the bed, then onto the floor, etc.

The foil will almost certainly stop him from going on the bed, but it might just redirect him to somewhere else.. Ultimately, you need to put on your thinking cap and start thinking like a cat and find out what is bothering Tip Toes if this doesn't resolve the issue. He might just want more attention.

Laying out aluminum foil is pretty small in the grand scheme of things. If you harve cats long enought, you will do much worse. We fed Pouncer(GA) shrimp for eight years, only to have Madison pick up th habit a week before Pouncer died six years ago. The good shrimp, too. $10 a pound. I also used to drag the 10' ladder out of the garage in the middle of the night so I could hold Abigail(GA) up to the ceiling so she could catch moths when they were plentiful one summer. Or putting tape down over the entire top of a VERY expensive rug because Mia is convinced that she needs to dig in the spot where one leg of the coffee table touches the rug, wnd covering that one stop just means that she needs to dig under the tape first. You learn very quickly that the cats are actually in charge.

Oh, the stories I could tell.

Good luck, and keep us posted. I'm sure others have some good advise as well.

Michael

You could buy a mattress cover that is water proof & put it over the bed until you can stop the problem. Add a litterbox near the bed. If that doesn't work putting it on the bed as Michael suggests & move it slowly to next to the bed. Do you have other cats that may be intimidating him in the existing litterboxes? Is he exhibiting pain when having bm's? He may associate the pain w/the litterbox.

I think there are several things going on here, and the advice you've received is pretty sound.

Something Jerri said really makes a lot of sense. I had a cat who quit using the litter box because she had a painful urinary tract infection, and she thought the litter box caused it. She didn't go on my bed, but she peed all over the basement carpet.

The thing I did that worked was to put down puppy pee pads near where she was going. For some reason, she figured out that this was a good thing and used them. I had to tape them down, but overall it was better than more cat pee in the carpet.

If your vet gave Tip Toes the all-clear and then I had $50 to spend on this and you left me in charge of your home for a week, I'd do these things:

1. Buy 2 new litter boxes that are different in some way from the current litter box - lower sides, larger, smaller, some kind of shape difference.

2. Lock Tip Toes in the bathroom with the new litter box and her favorite foods for a day.

3. Throw out the old litter box.

4. Go to Costco/Walmart/wherever and buy a whole bunch of aluminum foil.

5. Buy some of Tip Toes favorite treats.

6. Cover the bed in aluminum foil.

7. Put one new litter box near the bed and the one she's had in the bathroom for the day near where you want her to go but not in the exact same place as the old litter box.

8. Let Tip Toes out and hang around listening for when she uses a litter box.

9. Give her lots of treats when it sounds like she's dug around in the litter box.

Eventually, assuming she uses at least one of the litter boxes, you can slowly move the box she's using toward where you want her to go. Slowly = about 4 inches every other day. Continue with your luxurious new aluminum foil bedspread until it looks like she's consistently using the new box(es). Pull less aluminum foil on the bed over time, but keep a strip on the bed most days just in case she gets ideas.

This is all overthinking it, but I tried to be detailed.

Good luck!

Justin,

This happened to me and my vet said it was behavioral. Once they begin to do it, you have stop the behavior quickly or it will continue. The vet said it is a learned behavior. I had to purchase a cage large enough to hold his bed, water bowel, and small litter box. i put the cage in the dining room where there was a lot of activity. A cat will not go on its own bed, so it's forced to use the box. I would keep him in the cage at night, when I went out, and for a good part of the day. After he did his business in his box, I would let him out of the cage. He eventually began learn to use the box again. It didn't take long either. Probably no more than a week. Try this. Don't give up.

Jamie